Curse

ManadartheHealer · Jun 02, 2005, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega_2005

But back to the subject, there has been news about kids attempting to murder an Innocent 5 year old boy!! how cruel is that!?

It's horrible, but I cannot say I haven't come to expect things like this. They are becoming more frequent...

"Hey, he took my . Let's kill that , just like in Grand Theft Auto!"

We should look at the real problem here; the parents. How the hell do you raise a murderous child? A little violent, maybe. But murderous? WTF!?!?

Xellos · Jun 02, 2005, 11:19 PM // 23:19

It's nice how people are so into retribution, but then cry and beg for forgiveness and mercy when it's their turn. Seriously people, it's not like being a murderer or whatever is a easy life. They lead hard lives, go through alot of crap most of you probably don't have to, and while it's their fault, it doesn't make you better people to stone him to death for what he did.

Everyone hates Zabuza it seems.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 03, 2005, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

It's nice how people are so into retribution, but then cry and beg for forgiveness and mercy when it's their turn. Seriously people, it's not like being a murderer or whatever is a easy life. They lead hard lives, go through alot of crap most of you probably don't have to, and while it's their fault, it doesn't make you better people to stone him to death for what he did.

Everyone hates Zabuza it seems.

Retribution? Locking them up for life keeps them off the street so they don't hurt others (it's not necessarily retribution; only if you view it that way). While I wouldn't "stone them to death", I wouldn't want them on the street to cause more harm...

And nobody said life was easy for anyone. All that deal about "walking a mile in their shoes" applies here. My life can be hard, but only when I make it hard on myself.

I also never said I was a better person. But I don't walk around killing people, so therefore, they cannot lock me away for it. For all I know, I could be a terrible person.

pHobac · Jun 03, 2005, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xellos

It's nice how people are so into retribution, but then cry and beg for forgiveness and mercy when it's their turn. Seriously people, it's not like being a murderer or whatever is a easy life. They lead hard lives, go through alot of crap most of you probably don't have to, and while it's their fault, it doesn't make you better people to stone him to death for what he did.

Everyone hates Zabuza it seems.

I cant speak as to crap this guy went through, or will go through as a result of his actions, but I can tell you this. Roda went through a civil war, walked 1200 miles "barefoot and naked across a blistering Saharan desert" and spent seven years as a refugee. She didnt go around killing people, and I can't imagine what someone might go through in this country to even begin to rival that.

Quote:

I personally hope he rots in prison for life. I feel the death penalty is a bit too "soft", and it also sends the wrong message. You don't stop violence with violence.

@manadar, I doubt he will be executed. Washington state has executed 77 people in the last 100 years(1904-2004). To put that in perspective, Texas has executed 264 people in the last ten years(1994-2004)

So he will probably spend the rest of his life in the Washington State Prison in Walla Walla.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 03, 2005, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by pHobac

Washington state has executed 77 people in the last 100 years(1904-2004). To put that in perspective, Texas has executed 264 people in the last ten years(1994-2004)

Silly texas...

Aloren · Jun 03, 2005, 05:44 AM // 05:44

yep. Good ol' texas...lol
as for xellos, I'm not about retribution. I'm about justice. To be just is to consider what you do before you do it. To walk in another man's shoes before you judge.

My philosophy on a person's life is, "Life is alot like a game of poker. The world deals you a hand, and it's up to you to make the best of it you can."

Somehow I highly doubt this man "did the best he can" with his hand.

I dunno, a breakup to me just doesn't seem like a good excuse to murder someone. I just lost my girlfriend of over 3 years to another man not more than a few weeks ago while she was in college. I know I most certainly haven't killed my ex and have no plans to, lol.

Spirit Firefly · Jun 03, 2005, 09:50 AM // 09:50

It was a 12 year old girl and they reckon it was because she watched Robin Hood Prince of Thieves on TV the night before where at some point they apparently hang a boy.... i cant remember that scene but thats what the Daily Star says and the Daily Star is ALWAYS right.

Spirit Firefly · Jun 03, 2005, 09:51 AM // 09:51

England has executed 1 person in the last ummm... can't remeber when the last hanging was. I think at the end of the 70's or maybe even earlier.

Pevil Lihatuh · Jun 03, 2005, 01:55 PM // 13:55

heh england rules... hey look, this guy murdered someone brutally, lets give him 'life' sentence which actually means 20years in prison, but to be honest he'll probably get out after about 14 years. *rollseyes*

and yes, ok people make mistakes. a perfectly good person can make one mistake which results in him/her murdering someone... but you can't give leniancy for that. next thing you know everyone will be pleading emotional distress or something. The problem is that we are constantly told "killing is wrong" etc etc and yet watching a Die Hard film where the cop kills a bad guy is ok. (dont get me wrong, I dont want things like this censored, just using it for a point). If killing is so wrong, then the 'good' guys shouldn't kill either.

Of course I also know this world isn't perfect, and never will be. Mainly because human nature is not 'perfect'. But hey, we are meant to set examples right? And yet how many people have said or will say in front of their children "so and so is a pig, they should be killed"... maybe its not meant, maybe its about someone truly evil... but does that justify it? Maybe every murderer in history has truly believed that his/her victim deserved to die, that they were evil. Doesn't mean they were.

Hmm I haven't heard anything more on that 5 year old story. Luckily he's ok. I know papers are likening it to the murder of James Bulger(sp?) back in '93. I mean I hate kids but thats soooo wrong.

And just read that article... thats terrible.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 03, 2005, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pevil Lihatuh

Maybe every murderer in history has truly believed that his/her victim deserved to die, that they were evil.

Doubt it. Some people murder "for fun" and just kill people at random (serial killers, etc.). or perhaps they kill for the attention they never got as a child...

Either way, nobody has any right to say "so and so" deserves to die, because quite frankly, we ALL deserve to die (and we will one day anyway). We all do bad things (sometimes bad is relative). It's a case of the pot calling the kettle black (whichever way you look at it).

Also, what Pevil said, violence in movies, games, etc. is a serious problem for kids growing up; it's sending them mixed messages. Their parents say "killing is bad", while in games like Grand Theft Auto, the main point is to kill (even innocent people). I feel until we get at least the extremely violent games off the market, we as a society cannot adequately condemn murder, suicide, or any other type of violence, as we are fostering the development of new violent persons.

Aloren · Jun 03, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

I can see how it is sending mixed messages, but at the same time some parents need to get more involved with their kids. You can't let the TV and video games babysit you're lil'uns and expect em to come out just fine.

Human interaction is possibly the best way to teach correct morals to kids, we all just need to be better role models.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 03, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloren

...but at the same time some parents need to get more involved with their kids. You can't let the TV and video games babysit you're lil'uns and expect em to come out just fine...

You, sir, are now smarter than around 75% of the parents out there

Oh, and forcing your kids to go to church, synogogue, etc. every week does not count as teaching them proper morals.

midnyte13 · Jun 03, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

that is harsh. many people are ill equiped to deal with thier emotions. mnay feel that they are "owed" something because maybe they said or did something nice for another. many people who are involved in confronation feel they NEED to retaliate in kind or worse because they were (forgive the term) dissed. the world is full of animals, let them lose thier souls. know who YOU are and know those who are cut from the same cloth. steer clear of the rest and you might be ok....I say might because the energies of this world are forever coliding....take care.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 03, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnyte13

that is harsh...

But not exceedingly harsh...

Aloren · Jun 03, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

You, sir, are now smarter than around 75% of the parents out there

Oh, and forcing your kids to go to church, synogogue, etc. every week does not count as teaching them proper morals.

lol, quite true

I would not force my kids to follow any religion just because I do. I had to confront my family about my belief structure and it was not fun. I have a parent that is very, very religious.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 03, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloren

I would not force my kids to follow any religion just because I do. I had to confront my family about my belief structure and it was not fun. I have a parent that is very, very religious.

What belief structure is that?

I too have a parent that is religious, and I just told both my parents where I stood (on this issue). Even though they still do not really acknowledge that I did (denial

), it's not like they reacted terribly negative.

Aloren · Jun 03, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

yeah, it wasn't very good for me. I told my family on ash wednesday, lol.

My belief structure? I believe in a higher power (not necessarily god), that more sits back and lets us lead our own lives. Above all else I believe in the balance.

So what do you believe in mandar?

ManadartheHealer · Jun 03, 2005, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloren

So what do you believe in mandar?

Heh, not much

I tend to gravitate towards philosophical methods of thinking rather than more religious ways... especially because organized religion is, um, not the best it could be...

In a word, I suppose you could call me existentialist. We make our own purpose in life, because life has no inherent meaning. I really like the writing of Camus. I am not really a big fan of the "God" theory, or anything like that. Neither do I accept the idea of "destiny"; that is a concept to allow people to not feel responsible for their actions. I believe that the world is absurd. I mean, there is no logical reason for the world to be like it is now, is there? I have experienced the absurdity of the world first-hand, and it is a very peculiar feeling...

So, that is the outline of my beliefs, I suppose.

But a question to you: Is your family Catholic? You mentioned Ash wednesday, and I am pretty sure only catholics celebrate it. The only reason I ask is because my own father happens to be Catholic as well.

Aloren · Jun 04, 2005, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Aye. My family is Catholic, but only my mom got really upset when I told them. My dad is actually closer to my belief structure than he is to my mom's, lol.

See, I don't follow religion persay, but rather just an ideology. Like I said, that is the ideology of the balance.

I don't believe in destiny, but I believe in a very loose form of fate. I mean very, very loose compared to the way most people use fate (which is more or less a scapegoat for their choices).

The way i see it, Fate very gently guides us from birth to death, not making any decisions for us. We are somewhat brought to the "major" points in life ( I.e: those ones you look back on and feel were a a substantial turning point in your life), but we make the decision what we want to do with it. This, inevitably, leads to an infinite number of other choices. To me, Fate is pretty much just human choices.

pHobac · Jun 04, 2005, 05:10 AM // 05:10

One can believe in fate and deny entirely relegion. A material determinist believes that the determined state of the universe, that is the position and state of every particle in the universe, together with the laws of nature determine a unique and inevitable future. It has to do with the nescesity of the causal relationship that they believe in. I dont really want to get into it, but they could easily deny the existence of a God or higher power and still beleive that their desires could in no way affect the outcome of thier actions.

Which I think is a moral cop out because it lets people say that they cant be held moraly responsible for their actions. And that is complete and total bullshit, pardon the language mods, but it is. The lack of ethical accountablity is more at fault for things like this then violence on television or video games.